The Point of the RP Sample

[edtosivaree]

This is just kind of an opinion and idea I came up with after hearing about some possibly reworks to the tier system and staring at my own Rp sample. Agree/Disagree, whatever you think is right or wrong.

So we all know what the RP samples are. They are little tidbits that we have to write and meet a certain requirement for. for T1-4, the player making the RP sample gets to choose ALL their goals. With a word top out at 1000 words for the RP sample, that's a pretty tall order. Write an ~1000 word post involving what your character and all directly related and required NPC's do? I think I wrote a 1000+ word posts for a roleplay about a single character and it was about 13 paragraphs. What a doozy!

Then you get into T5 and 6 ((Sometimes 7!)). Now, you get RP Sample Goals. Your Sample has gone from a Maximum 1000 words to a minimum 2000 words. However, length isn't exactly what I noticed was wrong with the RP samples. Not entirely at least.

So as a lot of people may know I am currently working on a T6 character. This requires a 1,250 word Bio and a 5000 word RP Sample made up of three goals given to me by staff members. Making a Ship/Fleet Master, my goals were as followed. #1: Successfully engage and defeat 1 Stalwart and 2 Paris class frigates. #2: Eradicate an ODST boarding party. #3: Provide an after action report in person to my Home Fleets Fleet Master ((Who happens to be grumpy pants at the time))

Why am I telling you this? Well, it makes my life a touch easier, to be honest, as I am going to use myself as an example.

Now, I have to write Five Thousand words, entailing each of these three scenarios. Five Thousand words where I am both the Protagonist, the Antagonist, and all other character involved... Period. Sounds like a pretty fun short story doesn't it? That's the problem, though. At a certain point, you're no longer writing an RP sample, but a Short Story. You're writing for everyone.

Why is that a problem, though? Well, because we aren't here to write short stories. We have a thing for people who are good a writing short stories. It happens around October every year. How do we make the RP Sample more roleplay like?

Well, that's the interesting part. Roleplaying is about writing with another person. It's about writing off each other and doing such in an effective and fun way. Having to avoid Power Gaming and God Modding when you have such powerful characters.

I came up with an idea. Instead of the current system, which focuses on sheer writing ability, let's make a system that focuses on Roleplay ability, which also encompasses writing ability!

When you wish to make a high tier character, you bring your character concept in a short for to the required amount of staff to fill your sponsor slots. An Example

I want to make a Female Fleet Mistress who has had to face adversity her entire life due to a thick headed notion that females are incapable at combat and continues to face such adversities. Through wit, determination, and skill she manages to climb the ranks of the Covenant Military make no small amount of friends and enemies along her way. Where she is skill, and a valuable asset to the covenant, she has an uncanny fascination with Humans that could get her in trouble if she takes it too far.

There. Very basic idea. Now the Sponsors go and reflect on the current roleplay ability of the character using the characters they already have. Do they lay them well and in character? Could they handle such a jump? Whether the Sponsors answer is yes or no, the player will receive a message stated yes/no and why.

If the Sponsor agrees, they will write up a post that would emulate a situation the Character might wind up in. It could be the start of an interesting conversation or the middle of a life or death fist fight. The Sponsor sends their post, then the player responds to it with one post. Done. The Sponsor grades said post, if it meets their expectations in length, grammar, attention to detail, etc, then they get that sponsors green light. Once they receive all the green lights, they can go ahead and post their CS up for grading. The only difference at this point is that you do not include your RP sample. 

What this would do is shorten the amount of work the staff as a whole have to do to grade the profiles, and lets the player's skill at what they are here to do be graded rather than simply their ability to write.

Now I know a lot of people say that the RP Sample isn't actually there to test your ability to roleplay. At least, that's what I have been told. It's to test your ability to problem solve. I really have no idea how that pertain to roleplaying in the slightest really. As I said before, you're not roleplaying with how the current set up is. You are basically playing a game of chess against yourself. Especially if you're expected to fly UNSC if you're Covenant and Vice Versa. 

Now I did the Math. There are currently 3 T6 characters being made. If we adopted this system at this very second, and all the profiles were sponsored by the same people, it would involve 3 T4+ posts from each sponsoring staff member. There are currently only really 4 active staff members ((No offence Dave)) and I know all four staff are sponsoring profiles right now. I truly, and honestly believe that this would help us maintain our expectations, but in a truer to the art, way as well as reduce the amount of effort put in by staff. If it doesn't quite make it less work, it, at least, makes the work more fun then meticulously grading a 5000+ word RP sample. 

That's just my opinion, though.

[Guardian Cat of Yappa's]

Edto, though your concept is interesting, it would not work with the current system we have on Yappa's. On Yappa's, the higher tier profiles, T-5, T-6, and T-7 especially, are major story drivers. T-6 profiles are normally used to start missions and drive them, so a two paragraph post from a T-6 is unacceptable. If you look back at older missions, typically the standard post required for every opening of a main mission is around 1000 words, and has no interaction with other players. It's you and the Npcs you control. Other posts after that are typically 350-750 words, depending on if you're interacting with other players or by yourself.

Those numbers were taken from actual posts by T-6 characters, that have been used in the recent main missions. They are our story drivers for our story and are expected of being able to contribute a good part. Since they are also our story drivers, we expect them to be able to write a story without any sort of grammar issues, "God Modding", or any other problems, and yes typically it is also used to test your problem solving capabilities. Another purpose of the rp sample is that it gives us insight to what kind of character it will pan out to be. Typically your character development starts with your RP sample, it's your first real story with the character. 

Also to address another point, Roleplaying is a form of creative writing, I've read multiple interviews from amazing authors who have said "When I'm writing, I kinda become my characters." I believe one author that has said that is J.K. Rowling, but I could be wrong about her. So for T-5, T-6, and T-7, it's not only a tool to see if you can handle the responsibilities of Rping one of those profiles, but also, it's the first real connection you make with that character. If you can't write a short story with that character how are you gonna RP with it?

[BasedGoody]

I'll toss in my opinion, 'cause, well, I always do.

I love writing RP Samples. I always make characters and sometimes need to explain them with a short story. Sure, saying how the character is in those situations in the bio is one thing, but getting to write a short story that people have to read? Not only am I getting criticism on writing skills or logic, but it also helps me become a better writing. Plus, you know, we're writing stories here anyways. It's not too big a difference whether it be in the mission with other people or in a sample by yourself.

[Trooper]

First of all I'd like to point out, no tier has a maximum of words, they only have minimums that each player must meet.

However I do see what you mean. It would make things different, which can be both positive and negative. The Rp sample system that is currently in place, doesn't exactly feel like a multiple person Rp, because it inst supposed to be one. It's to serve as a testament for how your character acts, especially in odd situations, like when the planet in mission 7 nearly collapsed on all the t5-7 characters.

[edtosivaree]

Guardian Cat of Yappa's

I believe you and kill misunderstand what it is that I am saying. I am not saying, "Oh, T6 should be able to write a two post paragraph to start a thread. On the contrary, I agree. A T6 should very well be capable of starting a thread with a 1000 word post. But at the same time, that pales rather significantly to the 5000-word minimum. This is where things could get interesting, though.

We need threads to start moving. We need more large scale threads, which is why we brought back the Main Missions. We need a sense of flowing time. So what if the RP "Sample" for a T6 profile was to be an Opening Post to a Major Mission. Not only would this gauge the capabilities of the T6 at doing their job, but it would also help move the site along.

Of course, we can't have three right? So the as what I did with my set up, I PM'd all my sponsors and told them all what I had been given. That way all of them were in the loop and could make rational decisions based on that.

As for the quote by the author, I don;t see how this proposed change to the RP sample would stop you from becoming your character. The problem is that people are now writing not only for their character but characters they probably have little interest in playing. I really have no interest in playing three UNSC ships, and at the end of the day have to put more work into writing "Characters" and "Positions" than actually writing for my character. Seriously, I have had to sit and think harder on what people in my sample who would normally be played by several other people than I have for my character.

BasedGoody

I feel this is of personal preference. I also believe you participate rather enthusiastically in the Short Story competition. However, your comments after that lose value when you think about this. No matter what Tier you are writing the staff not only have to read the sample but give criticism. Your skill at writing will improve regardless of if you are doing a Sample in the Traditional RP sense, or in a Short Story format. The only difference is that not everyone who roleplays wants to be an author.

Now before you mention that T6 profiles should be held to different expectations, I will say no they should not. People who desire to play T6 profiles should be held to a higher tier of expectation within the same format. They should be able to do the exact same thing as a T1 profile, 6 times better.

Now to some degree I can understand having to control the opponent to some degree, but posts still don't go above 1000 1500 words. Unless over 1000 1500 words are the norm, then I am clearly mistaken.

Trooper

I don't see how writing an acceptable length response to a post responding to a situation, and writing a fully fleshed out, multi-character short story are that different other than the latter involving a style of writing that is not used on the site to a common degree. If anything, writing all the characters makes your response less authentic because well... you're writing out the entire odd situation. Kinda see what I am saying?

[MrKill]

There are three reasons I don't see this working.

1) Confusing

The website isn't entirely PvP. The way you are proposing, through our Stream conversation the other day, is to have staff post and convey their objective in-character for the profile creator to respond too: That is known as player versus player. However, the thing about role-play, it's always more than one response over and over again. Player Vs. Player alone takes more than a couple of posts unless something happens at the end of two posts, and it typically doesn't, unless one party just decided they've had enough with their character.

This is where learning to use NPCs as a plot device is needed. You're not going to kill another human PC over and over again, and a human fleet consists of usually thirty or more ships. What are you going to do? Sit there and wait to get fired upon by another playable character. The reason we have non-playable characters in this role play is for people to actually create combat posts in the main mission. Now, unfortunately, half the time (or more) they're treated as dumb canon fodder. There is an active campaign going on right now to change the stance of that.

With your proposed system, how do I complete my post with out meta-gaming, power-playing or god-modding my way through it. I'd have to force you to do something, like have ODSTs board your ship, and take damage from the MAC rounds that you face. That - at its core - is entirely against the rules and I'm not going to endorse something that promotes it, even if it's just a profile.

Your RP Sample doesn't just show off your writing abilities and attention to detail.

It shows off multiple things, among them the ability to control NPCs.



2) Unneeded changes cause problems and stress

The RP Sample has been used for nearly ten years. Aye, nearly double digits. There was once a time where the biographies either weren't required or not included with the character creation sheet. At one point, strength and weaknesses were also not a thing, but times do change and through those changes one of the most important pieces to creating a character has remained the same: The RP Sample.

Sure, the length and detail of them have changed. Tier five, six and seven used to not exist. You could accomplish a SPARTAN-II profile with a thousand word RP sample and a very short biographhy; but that's changed. Now a days, in order to get a SPARTAN-II, you need an extensive biography and RP Sample to show what the character has been through and how he'll be used in the main role-play setting.

Drastically altering to this system, or a version of this system, will cause problems and friction between the staff team and member base - even if it's just for the higher tier profiles - and increases the work load of the staff team even further by adding more responsibilities to a plate that's already had a few meals on it. Even a fully pledged and active staff team would struggle and eventually sputter out from the sheer amount of responsibilities they need to do on top of maintaining their lives. It's not reasonable to ask a human being to dedicate the majority of their day to a website. People leave and close the door behind them that way, people have already left and done so because that's what was being demanded from them.



3) NPCs themselves.

Other than the direct NPCs under your command, there are non-playable characters everywhere. Failure to imagine or detect non-playable characters as a plot device is unfortunate to say the least. Non-playable characters play a vital role, even though it's diminished by the current 'culture' surrounding them - that being they're treated as canon fodder (as mentioned above) - they will continue to be a part of the back bone that makes the writing experience on this role-play for the last ten years.

Controlling hostile NPCs is part of the experience surrounding Yappas, and I speak not from a high view watching others, but as a personal owner of multiple characters that have participated in multiple missions. Heck, at one point, there was a Unit Mission that had no opposing PC enemy forces to contest with. The only combat plot device that could be reliably used was Covenant non-playable characters, be them the mighty Hunters to the fierce Sangheili, who were never under the control of another person. The only people who participated in that unit mission was either the Covenant or the UNSC, not intertwined together.

Part of using NPCs is imagination and creativity. Yes, part of your argument is this:

I am both the Protagonist, the Antagonist, and all other character involved... Period. Sounds like a pretty fun short story doesn't it? That's the problem, though. At a certain point, you're no longer writing an RP sample, but a Short Story. You're writing for everyone.

Being on Yappas means you're writing short stories every time to make a post, which is why one sentence posts usually have a response equal to a twitching eye from most members. When you're making a post, especially in combat, you're very likely to use non-playable characters. NPCs can either be friendly or hostile, but at the end of the day, your character is the protagonist each time. If you're in an argument with a friendly NPC, they've become the antagonist to that individual post. If you're in an engagement with a hostile NPC, they're obviously the antagonist fighting the protagonist.

The fact of the matter is, playable characters aren't always around for multiple reasons. The profile/character owner goes AFK, on vacation or just decides the mission isn't their thing and pulls out. Say you're Shipmistress is talking to the Fleetmaster, who is a playable character, and in the middle of your conversation he goes AFK for a week and a half with no posts. He comes back, says his life is a little rough right now and can't post. The staff have him slip space out. Suddenly, you're all alone.

This is where the RP Sample comes in. It displays the ability to use NPCs effectively, and NPC control are also an asset we need in T5, T6 and T7 characters. Whether we like it or not, some times, there just isn't another playable character to talk too.










Now let's get down to the grimy facts that might not be liked very much.



You're making a female shipmaster.

The honest truth is that you'll probably be one of the few, if not the only person, active on a space setting in the main mission. Sure, some people might sign up to use their naval characters for the Covenant, but that doesn't mean they're going to be used. If they're not used, you're sitting alone in the dark as the only playable character in space for the Covenant. No one else to talk to other than NPCs. Seems kind of dark, doesn't it? No, it's not. That's one of the reasons controlling NPCs is important on Yappas and not just your character - another reason why the current RP Sample is important to the website.

If you're alone in space, the only other friendly people you'll have to talk to is friendly NPCs, where you have to play: the good guy, the bad guy, and the dude that just doesn't give a shit what's going on. Why is that? The only other playable characters in the space mission want to kill you because they're more than likely either ONI or UNSC Naval Officers with a magnetic accelerator cannon pointed at you.

[BasedGoody]

TBH just sounds you wanna cop out of writing a long RP sample but I'mma drop outta the rest of this convo.