Let's try to improve this website together.

[MrKill]

Discussions have gone on in the past, but it's time to show some interest in the communities opinions.

Lately, and I'm sure a lot of you have noticed, but our activity isn't exactly high. We've got a group of wonderful people posting and showing up everyday, and even with the ability for members to make their own missions now, it seems there is a lull in in character posting. The most of us have an approved character, heck... most of us have an approved tier four or over character we can post with.

The lull in our website activity despite more freedom to the members has made me curious why it's not being utilized, so I wanted to create this thread to improve the website together as a community rather than a staff team trying to improve the community with the help of the Guardians. I want this to be public, so please - post your concerns and suggestions.

We all want - at least the majority of us - to see this website continue forward, especially myself, which is why I am posting this thread.

I'd appreciate it if you took the time to think of ways to improve the website, and hopefully post your thoughts.

[BasedGoody]

I'll post i guess 'cuz lord knows I'm always vocal af.

For me at least I feel as if a main mission held everything together. Sure the last one didn't take off, but if a MM doesn't bring us back than nothing will IMO.

Also, we got a lot of people in HS like me, (Possibly MS for some...?) and college level students. Takes up a lot of time, and I have no more motivation to post than I have for homework. Personally a main mission would spark my posting up again - but that's just me. Most of us like writing. If not we'd just play Halo.

[Arbiter124]

Oct 13, 2015 19:16:23 GMT -6 BasedGoody said:

I'll post i guess 'cuz lord knows I'm always vocal af.

For me at least I feel as if a main mission held everything together. Sure the last one didn't take off, but if a MM doesn't bring us back than nothing will IMO.

Also, we got a lot of people in HS like me, (Possibly MS for some...?) and college level students. Takes up a lot of time, and I have no more motivation to post than I have for homework. Personally a main mission would spark my posting up again - but that's just me. Most of us like writing. If not we'd just play Halo.

True that. Main Mission brings the whole group together, and as long as its exciting, it can motivate people to post.

FACT.

[Llau]

Personally, I think the site can benefit well by having both staff and user created missions in the canon board. A little for everyone. The user-created ones we have so far, are pretty good, as well as fun posting in them since I pretty much got together with the ones who I am interacting with, and collected ideas for these threads. Communication is key, and it also helps if you're having trouble with posting when you can talk in a PM, Skype, or on Steam about what could happen next in the RP.

Also, one would be motivated to post if you made your own thread, and not just show interest in a thread someone made that your character can interact in. And if none of your current character(s) can't be used, you can always make another character, or create your own thread. Or join a staff-created mission if/when those come back.

Smaller threads just do better, imo; especially when the posters involved in the thread are active.

[Faclan]

I don't think anyone meant for the smaller missions to be taken away - so even if the big ones come back it'l be fine. But I do agree with Llau.

Bigger missions, especially massive staff ones where everyone is in it, seem to have a habit of one or two people dropping out due to lack of interest, nothing specific for their character to do, real life business, or in my case last missions lack of information that sort of screwed Kael over. I'm not saying they are bad but I'm not a fan of the bigger stuff as it generally just devolves into the same shooty shooty action each time.

One of the reasons why I've started so many smaller threads with 4 or less people in it. I trust them all to continue posting and can talk to them easily about plans we have.

As I said i agree with Llau, if you want to get a thread you are interested in make it yourself or make it with a few other people - even with a new character if need be. Though there would be nothing wrong with having both going if people want the bigger missions.

[Guardian Cat of Yappa's]

SPOILER: Click to show

Oct 13, 2015 20:36:33 GMT -6 Faclan said:

I don't think anyone meant for the smaller missions to be taken away - so even if the big ones come back it'l be fine. But I do agree with Llau.

Bigger missions, especially massive staff ones where everyone is in it, seem to have a habit of one or two people dropping out due to lack of interest, nothing specific for their character to do, real life business, or in my case last missions lack of information that sort of screwed Kael over. I'm not saying they are bad but I'm not a fan of the bigger stuff as it generally just devolves into the same shooty shooty action each time.

One of the reasons why I've started so many smaller threads with 4 or less people in it. I trust them all to continue posting and can talk to them easily about plans we have.

As I said i agree with Llau, if you want to get a thread you are interested in make it yourself or make it with a few other people - even with a new character if need be. Though there would be nothing wrong with having both going if people want the bigger missions.

Oct 13, 2015 20:22:46 GMT -6 Llau said:

Personally, I think the site can benefit well by having both staff and user created missions in the canon board. A little for everyone. The user-created ones we have so far, are pretty good, as well as fun posting in them since I pretty much got together with the ones who I am interacting with, and collected ideas for these
threads. Communication is key, and it also helps if you're having trouble with posting when you can talk in a PM, Skype, or on Steam about what could happen next in the RP.

Also, one would be motivated to post if you made your own thread, and not just show interest in a thread someone made that your character can interact in. And if none of your current character(s) can't be used, you can always make another character, or create your own thread. Or join a staff-created mission if/when those come back.

Smaller threads just do better, imo; especially when the posters involved in the thread are active.

Well these points may have a point, If you look, in every active thread on the site right now, it's the same 4 people posting with the same characters they always post with the same few characters. I think the main problem is we dont have a main linear story for people to follow. We have a bunch of characters in a pre halo video game timeline that kinda propel their own story.


We need to reestablish the main mission that drives the story and provides a sense of progress for characters that is noticeable by everyone. Im not saying do away with the user created missions, but let's turn them back into what they were Side Missions that add background to your characters, because if we keep things up this way. The Site Will Die, I've been on other sites with this system and they died hard, hell I was on one site where the site died, and the few members still around tried to start up a NEW SITE that was an alternate timeline of the old site and it died a second time. That's my honest opinion, bring back the main mission system and create a Linear Story line for us to follow that our characters can develop in.

[Faclan]

SPOILER: Click to show

Umm...its the same four people(ish) because we are currently the only ones active, thats not our fault. Other people can post up missions if they want. And the main missions so far have just been shooting at each other and then one side winning for somtimes silly reason. Sure there was growth in them, Roh being captured and Kael becoming disenfranchised with the Covenant or Cad becomming horribly injured - but if we want that kind of growth its generally better suited to side missions where there arn;t explosions or giant grasshoppers ever four posts.

And I have Kael active in Return to Eyan.
Hyde and Nek in Wolf in Sheeps clothing.
Nek in the new BB thread.
Eugine and CGR-159 in Ashes

People do use everyone but if they post a lot with one character, like Llau, thats because they like the character - theres nothing wrong with that and its because they want to explore the stories we can write with each other through one set of eyes and really develop that character. In the main mission that would be used too.

Honestly this idea that the main mission encourages growth is something that I don't really agree with. Theres only so much growth you can have in a combat zone unless you do something drastic (Roh Captured or Kael being beaten by the other Covie leaders) because the thread either moves so fast or stagnates to the point where you cant do anything. If we could have them be a constant speed that would be great but we don't have enough active people to do that.

Hence why I think the side threads with some people you trust are the best things to do right now untill some more people become active. Even if you wanted a big thread nothing is stopping you making an I-Check for a thread with ten or so people in it. I just dont like that because I hate threads I made dieng because people stopped posting.

Just because its four of us always posting doesn't mean its wrong, it means other people should actually get out there and make posts if they want to see more activity.

And there also is a main story that is laid out for us in the Halo games, or you can go post war and go along with that story being laid out to us in the Halo 4-6 and the Escalation comics - great read check them out - you just have to actually write about them rather than waiting for a mission to be made where you probably wont have time to do much exploring or development because you need to be deployed to shoot at people.


Once again, you can have the bigger thread that's fine. But don't relegate the smaller threads now back to the other sections ans they are the most fun I've had on the forum in a lot time and I know a lot of the other active people think the same way. Sites generally die due to lack of interest or activity, I fail to see how the only active things going right now is somehow the bad thing that will kill it.

[Guardian Cat of Yappa's]

SPOILER: Click to show

Faclan, if it's only the same three or four people posting, then what's gonna encourage other people to join if they see a member count of over 400 yet only 3-4 people post in a bunch of missions they created for their characters that follow no linear story line. Sure the main combat threads were deployments but if you wanna go take a look, Halo is a Sci Fi set in the middle of a Inter-Galactic War. I, along with a good portion of people who join the site, can tell you that we didn't join this RP to do social threads. We joined to write war stories, and war stories have combat in them, yes there are instances of social life in them, so that way the characters feel human, but for the most part we came to write war stories. Also i'm not saying that RPing side threads with 3 or 4 people is bad, but when there is no big story line to follow, and all people see are 3-4 of the same members rping little side stories with a small cluster of characters that relate to each other in no way shape or form, and then they see a member count of over 400, that typically drives people away from sites, I know cause I've done that before myself.

You even stated it in your own reply, they are Side Threads. Yet you want to use these smaller side threads that don't propel the larger story of the site as the main story driver for the site. I'm sorry but I don't see how a kig-yar eating dinner on a space station, determines the results of a battle that is taking place hundreds upon hundreds of light years away. I understand it makes for character development and a more dynamic character but let's face it, they are side threads.

Now with those threads you quoted one of them is Ashes, the thread I created, an attempt at a User Created and Controlled Thread, like how this new system is designed to run, that died. Not because I didn't provide the information cause I stated the information needed in the IC and multiple times after the IC. But because of two problems, 1.) Members didn't read the full interest check, which was the other problem we had with M8, a bunch of players didn't read the full interest check and so we had things going on that made no sense, like ODST teams dropping in by droppod when they were coming down by pelican. 2.) The Thread died because reason number one.

Now if you look at who joined the thread, all but 1, who could have been posted around easily, were and still are, "active" members on the site, three of these members being You, Fade, and Betawolf. The only person who even had enough interest to try and re-spark the thread after it died was 120, me personally I didn't see it worth the effort since people couldn't even read the entire IC for the thread. Now the main missions, they were pretty straight forward before we tried to complicate them, we were given objectives, those objectives were updated throughout the mission, we had a background story about the mission, whether it was some weird artifact went off, or the atmosphere is all funky or whatever. There was some interesting twist that provided a form of story, and then there was what we came for, combat, war stories, a sense of linearity in the story, a sense of "oh dam humanity really is getting f***ed up" like how the books and games say it is.

We're a Pre-War Site, one of the only around Faclan, that means all this is going down before the first halo game, so the only Events we have in concrete from the books/games, are the deaths of previous planets like Harvest, and Jericho VII. We put up a post war section for the large demand it had from the same people who demanded that we allow side missions to dominate the site. Yet there is no one posting in the post war area?

Also I don't understand what you mean by regulate them to back to the other sections? the Side missions have always been in the canon RP board? So I don't understand anything behind what you mean by that. Even if we had the big Main Missions, your side missions would still exist and be there so I don't understand what you mean. Also a bunch of side missions being run by the same guy, and only the same 3-4 taking part in every one of them, and all of them are closed threads, does not promote activity. If anything, it becomes your own little private writing circle. Other members can try to create threads yea, but when most threads fail because either A.) no one fully reads the IC or B.) people lose interest in the writing. Then well the threads just die, along with the whole site because it becomes isolated and then people get busy so they don't log on anymore and then when a new member comes around, all they find is a bunch of necro threads that were never finished, a staff team that doesn't log on, a few older members who decide they are gonna create a new site to revive a RP that died because of the fact they wanted everything to be driven by their preferred way of writing.


(Im speaking from experiance of coming across sites like that and then being part of the attempted restarts)

Tag:Faclan

[BetaWülf]

I think honestly, we need to try out a Main Mission with the restructured site. BUT. And this is a big but(go ahead and laugh, I did), but it needs to be a Mission that nearly everyone can enjoy. This will likely take a month, or three, or even more to fully think out and develop, but there is a distinct void left by the absence of Main Missions.

Side Missions however are very, very important, and need to remain. The Main Mission supplies us with our nitty gritty scar gaining fodder, and gives us raw emotions for our characters, the Side Missions are what lets us take those raw emotions and forge them into character. The two kinds of Missions are equally important.

But I've also gotta point out, Yappa's is its own site, there really isn't any other like it. It cant really be compared to other sites, what kills them isn't something you can say with certainty will kill Yappa's.

I disagree that the majority of our members came here for war stories. Half of us came to write war stories, with social stories as a side thing, and the other half joined for social interaction, with war stories as a side thing. It is a fairly even split.

I love fighting, waging this Human-Covenant War, Garatus lives to fight. But he's also a Dad, and has an entire Tribe to lead through life. I love both aspects, and we need to make sure both get their proper attention. If was have both we've got a far better chance of expanding our member count.

Currently, I think at least, we could use a little warfare. But I don't want it to grind my social threads to a halt either. I want to enjoy this site to its full potential, but more so, I want all of you, my friends, to enjoy it too.

We've got decent activity atm from our active members, we are just lacking numbers. We're just in a little rut is all, we've been through them before and this is not the end times, we'll make it through.

---

On the note of time period and stuff, after some rereadings/rewatchings/replayings of Halo material, I'm going to gush over my favorite Halo time period.


I think the time period that interests me most is the Schism time period, leading right up to it for the tension, and right after it for the fracturing of the Covenant. That's the Halo I know and love, I have relatively little investment in the pre-schism time period. But I also have really enjoyed the pre-Schism time, as it has allowed me to establish and build my characters in a way that perfectly sets the up for Halo Reach, Combat Evolved, Halo 2, and Halo 3.

I'm not at all saying time-skip or anything like that, just that I'm really, really, really looking forward to the Great Schism and all of the political intrigue it holds for the Covenant. It also brings forth more Human-Covenant interaction, not friendly, but still getting to know your enemy on a more personal level. And the UNSC are FINALLY getting to understand the Covenant, the structure, the ways to pit the species against each other. Heretics are swanky too, though minimal role like our Innies is what we'd be shooting for I would imagine.

I just feel more connected to this period of time(as I think many of us are), and as we've shown with our current year of 2548, we can stretch a year out a loooong time without it getting stale. Look how much we've accomplished in just one month of 2548? My characters have grown considerably as people. So the years between 2550 and the official end date of the Human-Covenant War is something I think we can stretch out, even longer than 2548(which has been in use for what, almost two years now? Pretty good outlook imo).

Sorry, just love that time period a lot so I gushed over it 

---

Anywho!

Pretty much my thoughts are thus.

1#: Bringing back Main Missions for site cohesion. I think they were the honey that caught new members, but the lack of social threads eventually made it stale for them. Now that we've got the Social threads, we've put a lid on the honey and the new members aren't flowing like they did before.

2#: Keeping PC made Missions because they are a very popular idea(just needs a little grease in the wheels so to speak), and once we get back on track they'll help balance out the site and keep our ship running smoothly and be fun for everyone.

3#: When making a Mission, Main Mission or PC Mission, we should all be more liberal with the use of event/update posts to help keep everyone on track and the missions alive. Someone drops out and posting stops because they hung it up? Update that bypasses this issue and gives everyone a fresh reboot! M5 was pretty good about this, and only slowed near the very end really. M6 was decent about it too, though less frequent, and also a bit slower overall.

4#: I think we all need to try and focus on having fun, things have a tendency to get too serious and just make everyone tired and less active. It just feels like we forget this sometimes which makes me sad. Staff have a commitment that can be unfun at times, true, but hey, I manage it! I believe my fellow Staffies can too, and our Guardians and Members! Everyone have some fun on my behalf please! *throws elite tacos about for everyone*

[tento125]

The reason why I joined this site in the first place was that it was listed as a "halo rpg". Meaning that I joined so that I can interact in the halo universe. I extremely like the part that we can create our own missions and that those missions would help drive the timeline forward. This is because that despite all the games, all the novels, and all the comics, there is still relatively a lot left out of the human-covenant war. We, the halo fans, get to expand that out. We get to create our own characters, develop stories and so on.

Yes I agree that we should bring back the Main missions, AND to keep the "side missions" going. I also agree that sometimes the staff becomes too serious about somethings, in which it decreases the "funness" of RPing.

Yeah, those are my thoughts on this issue.

[Faclan]

Draken reply;

SPOILER: Click to show

- I will again say that I'm fine with a main missions I just don't think we should make the side missions less important.

- You assume we have a main story to follow besides some big events that are still a ways off in our current timeline, I don't think our main missions have connected together that much.

- Would you rather have member see zero posts being done rather than us 'four' in the side missions? Sounds a lot worse to me. And I would ask you to please not assume that we are not following stories with our characters. Mike is going through a lot of changes and if you would read Nek's stuff since FoF especially he has become a lot more confident as he lives through more situations. They are growing as characters and following a 'story'. Just because its not a main mission doesn't dilute that quality. And again just in the case of Llau and myself we generally talk on steam ever day about the overarching story of Mike and how Nek and Chris and hell even Eugine could fit into it. We have stories and ideas that may come to pass. We just came jump that far in the future without establishing the base line.

- Member count is a poor metric to judge by because a lot of those members made an account and then did completely nothing with it. No character no posts no nothing. Members on in the past 24 hours would be better. But again a lot of those people just get on, Cbox for a bit, and then log off.

- I dont think I ever said I want them to be the main story. I said I was fine with larger main missions just that right now its a lot easier to tackle a personal story in a smaller side mission with only a few people.

- Nothing is stopping you from writing war threads or war stories. If you would just ask some alien players we would probably be happy to join your thread to provide some conflict for it so you can have some war growth if that's what you want. Staying silent however isn't going to help us know that that's what you want.

- On the note of Nek eating at the BB not determining the result of a battle super far away. Even if he was in the battle for a planet it wouldn't make any result on things that far away. I'm either not getting what you are trying to say with that point or somthing because it seems a bit non-sequitor.

- In regards to Ashes I think the issue with the thread personally is that we were waiting for the jump to finish so we could actually meet up with the Humans and start some RP there. But as BetaW suggested you could try to restart it. I'm doing that right now with my Post war thread Captain and the Commando thread. And at least for my in M8 it was because I was under the impression that mine meant Mountain, and because my post in the Guardian thread was a-oked I assumed there was a mountain since I mentioned it twice in my first post. And when I was told there wasn't one there was now no cover for Kael, a Covenant Commander with her group of officers too, who had been seen by UNSC snipers and tanks. And so she was pretty much dead. The argument that followed made me leave the thread.

- A lot of your points, like oh dam humanity is getting messed up, seem to favor Human characters and their RPing. True many human players may have joined to fight the war against the evil aliens. But us alien players joined, at least myself and Beta, joined to explore alien culture and the dynamics between the species and the war secondary. I enjoy trying to explore their cultures rather than just shooting at Humans who rarely die.

- I know the timeline Draken - what was your point for that statement? As you mention there are 'only four' of us posting. So why does that surprise you that there is no-one posting in a new board? But I have a post war thread that people were still game for starting again if you look at the I-check and I've tried to help them start it up again. But my post war Gel thread is dead, yes I agree. But if people are interested I am happy to start that up again.

- Side missions are in the Non-Cannon RP board Draken. Smaller threads that are in the Canon RP board could be called side missions but that was probably just a translation issue on my part so I apologize.

- Yeah, a lot of the side missions are being run by 'us four'....and? That doesn't stop other people from making their own thread. And if people would talk to me in PMs or on Cbox I would be happy to help them with a thread or if they would like join their thread. I'm currently maxed out on characters (may make Eal an NPC to make another Human) and they cover I believe every facet of RP so I can probably help even if its just a small thread that only goes for ten posts or so.
And I doubt the threads will die when its just 'us four' because we all trust each other to keep posting and talk with each other off site to make sure we are all kept up to date and know what's going on and/or who should go next so they can start thinking of a plan. Communication is important.
And the doomsaying I'm going to have to disagree with because, as I mentioned above, I think its much better for members to see some threads being posted in then nothing. But I do agree that some of the staff don't log on or post all that much. Kill is trying to do better at that so well done him but as I said in the Guardian thread I hope activity as a whole can pick up so it not just 'us four' posting. You staff have the power to change that by posting should you desire.

I also don't want things to be driven by my way of writing or any one person, I enjoy seeing different peoples writing styles. Mine is just the one you tend to see because I love to post and love to be in a lot of different threads. If that's something I'm not supposed to do then that seems like a poor attitude.

------------------
BetaW and Tento;

I do agree, again, that main missions should come back if people like them. But we need to plan them out a bit better so there arn't any Mountain issues again.

I agree with BetaW and Tento125 (Thanks for posting in this despite being newer ). That the Halo universe is vast and so we should be free to explore it as best we can. And that if we want to have a massive member thing like a main mission we should plan it carefully so everyone can have fun.

------------
Shorthand endness;

And with that I'm going to head to sleep, its 8AM here and I've been thinking about this reply and poking at it since 5. I am sorry if its all disjointed but I just tried to address the points as best I could. But shorthand I agree with Tento and BetaW, and my section was just me responding to Draken.

Sorry of its hard to read but sleep will finally come now.

[MrKill]

So, here is what I am getting; a short and sweet TL:DR synopsis, correct me if I am wrong with your own.

1) Bring back a smaller 'main mission' where people can use multiple characters to accelerate our timeline forward.

2) Leave in the ability to create threads for character development, including their own potential missions.

[MrKill]

This is a thread to help with the website as a hole, enough arguing please.

If you don't have anything constructive to say at this point it doesn't need to be in this thread.

Some of the replies, or sections of replies, have been put in spoiler tags.

[Llau]

Like I said, having both the staff-created main missions and the player-created missions will be a good thing.

Having a variety readily available on a RP forum works, so long as people are active and want to post or make their own threads. RP forums die out due to lack of activity and motivation from both the staff and/or members alike. This is why Fac and I were so lenient on telling the staff of our concerns in the Guardian board, and wanting you guys to become active again. Because we didn't want to see YHRPG die out if nothing is done to fix it. This has been my home since 2005, so yeah, when I see something wrong, I'd like to try and fix it if I can. Or someone else wants to try and fix it. Either way works...hopefully.

Draken. Both Fac and BetaW told you why you only see us four with the same characters, but here's another reason. Good characters — the kind that are not only realistic, but are as multidimensional as real people — are the lifeblood of a main mission or a smaller mission thread. Maybe plot is the number one reason people keep reading/writing, but good characters are essentially what make them stay. Good characters accentuate a plot and a story, and people continue participating in these threads - let it be side missions or main missions.

I would like to call these side missions "character-driven stories", where as, these main missions with more focus on pew pew pewing, I would like to call "plot-driven stories". In plot-driven stories, the characters are more of an afterthought. Still important, of course, but in plot-driven stories, the plot is the most important feature. In character-driven stories, the plot is more of an afterthought with the development of the character being right there in your face.

If you have characters who fail to make themselves useful and worth writing about (this is why it's very important to have character development/character-driven stories, so they won't be dull, flat, inconsistent, and uninteresting), your mission will fail no matter how amazing the plot of your mission is. Of course, I know that isn't the only reason an RP thread stops, as there are a variety of factors that are involved. Someone drops out of a thread with more than two people, the players involved with the thread aren't communicating well, or interest in it dies for who knows how long.

---

There are fixes to these problems.

- Someone drops out, void their posts (works better when you know they aren't coming back), or continue on as if they were still there (look at Wolves in Sheep's Clothing as an example of this). I've done it many times - it sucks, but the thread continues, and if they return - if - you should bring them up to speed, so they can jump right back in. If it's just you and someone else, and either you or the other player drops, just do something else in the time being.

- Lack of Communications. Communicating is the most important thing you need to do in order to keep the thread alive and active. We have plenty of ways doing this, so it shouldn't be a problem - PM, c-box, skype, steam, chatzy, etc. Communicate with your fellow rpers who are in your thread. Discuss the plot or what happens with the characters, and inform those when you can post if you become busy, or need to drop out if RL gets in the way, and tell the others what they can do if you do drop out. (ie: continue on, wait if it isn't too long of a wait, or have another player control your character as an NPC if you are comfortable and trust them with your character)

- Lose of interest. True, people lose interest, but mostly due in part of not knowing what to do next, or their characters don't seem to have anything to do. In which case, it's your job to tell the player what their character needs to do (Objectives), and is also courteous to do so; otherwise, they will continue being lost and give up. Also, it's very good to keep an eye on what each player is doing (READ EVERYTHING). This is where communication comes in. Bigger threads, one should still communicate with at least those you are currently interacting with, but still might be a good idea to talk to everyone else involved in that thread, so you know what they are up to. It'll keep things consistent, and the thread will be far less confusing in the long run.

---

  

Characters drive the plot and they give the reader a reason to, you know, read the story; or in this case, other role-players you are interacting with, will continue to interact with you and your character with their character, and not just the will of continuing the plot forward. Characters stick with us long after the story fades away. As readers, they become our “friends” in a way. As writers, they can be our best friends or sworn enemies, or anything in between. Why do you think I use Mike and write with him a lot? It's not because he's ONI, wears those awesome looking black ONI uniforms, uses tech and wears sweet gear. As much as I love the sneaky sneaks, the uniform, and the other sweet stuff, it's his character development, and how Fac, Beta, and I have interwoven our characters history together just by talking to each other about plans and ideas. He has to be my best character I've made in quite a long time. Not only that, he's the reason I still role-play here, and the reason my love for Halo and role-playing in Halo was brought back. That's it.  

[David]

I feel that we removed Main missions because of the popularity of them. No one posted in them, They wern't exciting and all it ever seemed like was one failure after another.

Admittedly, WHen we brought in the new system of Staff selected User Missions to use as a quasi "Main mission" We didn't do one crucial thing. Select a mission. Then again, there wasn't much selection that really fit in with what we had in mind.

I've said this once, I've said this a lot. I feel the success of a mission driven Role Play is to have a loose story Arc and to base our missions around this. And whatever side was deemed winner, We then plotted the next mission around that, while still adhering to the story arc in place.

Thats what I had in mind for that.

As for the arguing, It stops now. We all have different points of view. Doesn't mean any one is more right than the other. Its tiresome and petty.

[BetaWülf]

Oct 14, 2015 15:14:15 GMT -6 David said:

I feel that we removed Main missions because of the popularity of them. No one posted in them, They wern't exciting and all it ever seemed like was one failure after another.

Admittedly, WHen we brought in the new system of Staff selected User Missions to use as a quasi "Main mission" We didn't do one crucial thing. Select a mission. Then again, there wasn't much selection that really fit in with what we had in mind.

I've said this once, I've said this a lot. I feel the success of a mission driven Role Play is to have a loose story Arc and to base our missions around this. And whatever side was deemed winner, We then plotted the next mission around that, while still adhering to the story arc in place.

Thats what I had in mind for that.

As for the arguing, It stops now. We all have different points of view. Doesn't mean any one is more right than the other. Its tiresome and petty.

I didn't think anyone was arguing tbh, I just thought it was a serious discussion happening. But will make sure to keep all my responses constructive.


I think though, the problem with the Main Missions was that the stakes were always too high, and failure equaled a political humiliation for our UNSC and Covenant PC groups. So much so in fact, we've had to disband and reform them. There was a push to just throw Main Missions out, as they were the only readily available RPs, so they didn't get quite the time they needed to develop.

But with our PC made Missions, I think this gives us the time we need to make a well thought out Main Mission, as members can suitably entertain themselves while we work to make something for everyone.

I'd actually like to volunteer myself to start working on rough draft plot for the Main Mission people are wanting, as I have some ideas floating around my noggin' that I think could work really well for everyone

(Once written, the draft would of course be submitted to Staff/Guardians for revision/suggestions)

[Black Chaos]

If the stakes were so high in the main mission, why can't there just be 2 campaigns? They don't even have to be intertwined. Humans can have one storyline, and the Covenant can have another. The Humans get to "win" their storyline, and the Covenant get to "win" theirs.

In my opinion, the best missions that we had were when the outcome of the mission was already decided before we even started. It was like filling in the details of a book, but only a few staff members knew how it would actually end which wasn't a problem. It didn't matter how well we all did, Yappa was gonna get captured and ultimately killed, there was nothing we could do. It kept the suspense up. I don't know how active the site / missions are now, but dividing the site into 2 missions might be bad because if each mission only has 4 or 5 active posters, it will die out. Maybe you should have a single mission. You've gotta RP as a Human, even if you have a Covenant character. At least the main mission will be active and you can still post with your other characters whenever you want.

Every time I've re-visited this site over the past 10 years, I seem to have come back during a period of great revamping because member activity has gone down (with the exception being when Seren was the admin). It is time to act and take chances on a single goal, not several goals. Pick one goal. Get the main mission going, or get 2 missions going, or emphasize external missions. But pick one of them, and focus 100% of your effort on this.

[BasedGoody]

IMO we could just drop to 1 main mission and cut all the side missions. No distractions, just posting.

[MrKill]

Oct 14, 2015 18:16:07 GMT -6 Black Chaos said:

If the stakes were so high in the main mission, why can't there just be 2 campaigns? They don't even have to be intertwined. Humans can have one storyline, and the Covenant can have another. The Humans get to "win" their storyline, and the Covenant get to "win" theirs.

In my opinion, the best missions that we had were when the outcome of the mission was already decided before we even started. It was like filling in the details of a book, but only a few staff members knew how it would actually end which wasn't a problem. It didn't matter how well we all did, Yappa was gonna get captured and ultimately killed, there was nothing we could do. It kept the suspense up. I don't know how active the site / missions are now, but dividing the site into 2 missions might be bad because if each mission only has 4 or 5 active posters, it will die out. Maybe you should have a single mission. You've gotta RP as a Human, even if you have a Covenant character. At least the main mission will be active and you can still post with your other characters whenever you want.

Every time I've re-visited this site over the past 10 years, I seem to have come back during a period of great revamping because member activity has gone down (with the exception being when Seren was the admin). It is time to act and take chances on a single goal, not several goals. Pick one goal. Get the main mission going, or get 2 missions going, or emphasize external missions. But pick one of them, and focus 100% of your effort on this.

Unfortunate time to come back.

The hard truth is, perhaps, we're not as capable as Seren was. I take that at full face value.

However, I want to see this website be the best it can be, as any admin team wants.

This isn't a major revamping, just a discussions.

We've enjoyed amazing activity, where our total users online peak over 50 members a day; we also suffer droughts it seems, where the total members online is sometimes below twenty.

I just want to see the website continue forward with activity is all.

[Faclan]

Why would we drop the side missions while people are really enjoying it?

Just go with whats been said by a lot of people since the start - bring back main missions since people seem to want them but also keep the smaller side missions since a lot of people enjoy them too.

And if you want help Kill I'm sure the Guardians and even the normal members could help with ideas for a Main Mission that both Human and Covenant players could enjoy. I may not be a fan of them but some people clearly want them so I would help make one.

[Llau]

Oct 14, 2015 18:43:33 GMT -6 BasedGoody said:

IMO we could just drop to 1 main mission and cut all the side missions. No distractions, just posting.

Not sure how having side missions are distracting if we have a main mission going on too...I mean, I guess if you're high it could be distracting? In any case, myself, and I'm sure others are fully capable of posting in both. You know, just posting. 

[David]

.. Can we all cut the sass? I see a lot of useful suggestions and I thank you all for them but I also see lot of snide comments. If you don't have anything nice to say then don't.

My suggestion.

[Kart]

Oct 14, 2015 19:29:38 GMT -6 MrKill said:

Oct 14, 2015 18:16:07 GMT -6 Black Chaos said:

If the stakes were so high in the main mission, why can't there just be 2 campaigns? They don't even have to be intertwined. Humans can have one storyline, and the Covenant can have another. The Humans get to "win" their storyline, and the Covenant get to "win" theirs.

In my opinion, the best missions that we had were when the outcome of the mission was already decided before we even started. It was like filling in the details of a book, but only a few staff members knew how it would actually end which wasn't a problem. It didn't matter how well we all did, Yappa was gonna get captured and ultimately killed, there was nothing we could do. It kept the suspense up. I don't know how active the site / missions are now, but dividing the site into 2 missions might be bad because if each mission only has 4 or 5 active posters, it will die out. Maybe you should have a single mission. You've gotta RP as a Human, even if you have a Covenant character. At least the main mission will be active and you can still post with your other characters whenever you want.

Every time I've re-visited this site over the past 10 years, I seem to have come back during a period of great revamping because member activity has gone down (with the exception being when Seren was the admin). It is time to act and take chances on a single goal, not several goals. Pick one goal. Get the main mission going, or get 2 missions going, or emphasize external missions. But pick one of them, and focus 100% of your effort on this.

Unfortunate time to come back.

The hard truth is, perhaps, we're not as capable as Seren was. I take that at full face value.

However, I want to see this website be the best it can be, as any admin team wants.

This isn't a major revamping, just a discussions.

We've enjoyed amazing activity, where our total users online peak over 50 members a day; we also suffer droughts it seems, where the total members online is sometimes below twenty.

I just want to see the website continue forward with activity is all.

Okay, guys, I've held off talking about this because I feel like enough opinions about what kind of missions are being run have been tossed about. For the record, I'm favoring a main mission and secondary mission system (like Seren had). However, I feel like we could also address how the missions themselves were run. That's what this post is about. P.S. This is all bolded to differentiate it from the rest of this post. I'm not shouting intensely. I promise.

Also, this shit is long. I've added TL;DR summaries for you to check back on if you are short on time. But please read through if you can! These are ideas I've had percolating for awhile.

Activity is always good! Let's discuss that. A good mission is an active mission. So how do we make missions good?

I first joined the site when Seren was admin, and yes, our missions were quite active. But let's look at why that was;

• There was a core group of players who were always active, and were friends with each other outside of the RP and were always perpetually in contact with each other. They drove a lot of the roleplay, and also took up most of the staff positions. However, they also had a tendency to monopolize the RP, which contributed to Seren getting kicked out. When Seren was removed, he took most of that group with him, which slowed the RP to a crawl as a new administration foundered
  
• During Seren's adminship, missions weren't simply text posts. The staff at the time believed in large amounts of accompanying material. Every mission was loaded with maps, so that everyone knew where everything was, that were regularly updated as the missions progressed. There were staff artists, staff whose main purpose was providing secondary material. Anubis springs to mind, who was, for awhile, the official "Site 3-D Artist." Specialized positions like that are hard to fill, but they definitely contributed to inspiring people. Quite frankly, people see cool illustrations or interesting tactical plans and get inspired to write. As in, "ooh, I could go there" or "wow, damn, looking at awesome site-made spaceship models is inspiring and I am absolutely not afraid to admit it because let's face it we're all nerds here"
  
• Schedules. Everything the staff did at the time was well-scheduled. I'd remember staff members posting up plans, with specific deadlines and launch dates and all that good stuff. People would actually get pumped for a specific date--myself included. I remember waiting for October 23rd  (or whatever) as the launch date for M3! Get hype! This sort of schedules provided structure for the game in general without restricting the roleplay

TL;DR: Seren's system was good because of:

• Core group of active members who drove roleplay
  
• Additional material for each mission that made it interesting
  
• Well organized scheduling
  

But keep in mind; the Seren/Abroad adminship was removed for a reason. Let's take a look at why;

• The same group of roleplayers mentioned above would often formulate plans for the roleplay without input from the other members. Control of the roleplay was firmly in the staff's hands, and members were often railroaded, meaning that rather than playing a game, we were almost writing a scripts. In fact, I remember Seren once saying (paraphrasing here) "We're not playing a video game, we're collectively writing a story" which is a cool sentiment, but one that requires the authors of said story to be in agreement. We weren't.
• The presence of secondary material or site canon was immutable. Ideas from the outside were not welcome. Additions to the site canon were from the staff downward. The addition of member proposals to site canon was something fought over for a long time, with the staff making decisions on material without talking to members about them--another extension of a strictly regulate roleplay. This was a major issue of contention when it came to interpreting Halo canon--for instance, Seren believed that navally speaking, the UNSC ships were equal to Covenant ones. Others interpreted canon differently. One of these sides had more evidence.
  
• Abroad.

TL;DR: Seren's system was problematic because of

• Little to no creative freedom. What the staff decided went, others followed orders
• Site canon was up to the staff and disagreements over fanon and interpretation of Halo canon were common
• Ban-happy berk
  

But we can plainly see that whatever problems a system like Seren's had could be overcome. But before we go into applying lessons learned from Seren's system, let's look at the systems that followed it and what good they had to offer:

• Seren's system was replaced by one that was run primarily by Saber, Wax and Killer Frog, and later on by myself, Kuran, and Killinger. Emphasis was placed heavily on member-driven storylines and input, and discussion threads were common. This meant a great deal more creative freedom and members were allowed to take part in storylines, finally emphasizing the play and game rather than just filling a role.
  
• Site canon became flexible and malleable. This had good and bad effects--but for now, let's look at the pros. It allowed an increased amount of character backstory, interaction, and generally deepened the storyline of the roleplay. It made Yappa's canon into Yappa's canon, giving it stories something new rather than a rehash of the Halo canon stories. And our interpretations of Halo canon became a lot more flexible (and in my opinion, accurate) because open discussion with use of evidence was allowed--rather than conforming to the opinions of a couple staff members. This was a particularly big deal for Covenant members, as during Seren's time we were sidelined given that the vast majority of the staff (which comprised a dozen or so members) was UNSC.
  
• Staff were friends with members again. The divide present between staff and members was greatly lessened--while in the past couple years, there have been complaints of "the staff don't listen to us" or "the damn  elitist colored-names are oppressing us" they were, for the most part, tame compared to the friction between the staff and members during Seren's time. I can honestly say that I don't think half the members here could have gotten away with they way they normally talk during Seren's era. Hell, I got in hot water for causing trouble with the staff and I'm as confrontational as a particularly vexed rabbit

TL;DR: Post Seren-systems (including current system) are good because of

• Members could help guide the story
• Site canon was made flexible, as was interpretation of Halo canon, and discussion was open
• Staff and members were less divided
  

Are you still reading this? Wow, good for you. I would have given up long ago and just read the TL;DRs.  Alright, let's look at the disadvantages of our system.

• It's slow. There is a great lack of direction with the story, and no grand plotlines overarching the rest. I never received confirmation for this, but I always thought that Seren, if left in power, would eventually have guided the site to the Schism in the Covenant. I believe that was his end goal, something to be done years in the future. We lack that sort of long-sighted planning, and even our individual main missions collapse because members are not active enough to drive plotlines toward any sort of resolution.
  
• Bloat. Beta12 would be better suited to discuss this. He described this in great detail--member input into site canon (and staff input too--I was guilty of this) created a great fanon mess that was so divorced from Halo canon that it was crap. The Heretic faction, all that shit in the canon proposals...Beta12 was absolutely right about that stuff needing to be cut. Currently, that problem has been fixed and our canon proposal system is functional.
  
• Flame and fighting. Whoo. Flaming and fighting still happened in Seren's time, of course (hence them being kicked out) but it all tended to end pretty quickly (I'm pretty sure Abroad had the banhammer hotkeyed). In our modern timez fighting happens constantly, which isn't good, and sass is the rule of the day. This is definitely a bad thing as most people would perceive it. (my opinion is that people need to have thick skin, and a little sass shouldn't bother them and is in fact indicative of a healthy freedom of speech)

TL;DR: The problems with our current system are;

• Slow!
• Disorganized!
• Prone to infighting!

Okay. Long, big overview of past and present. Let's talk about future. How to we combine elements from a fast-paced but strictly formula system and apply them to our flexible system and get some goddamn activity up in this biz? Here's a short list that is by no means all-encompassing:

• Scheduling. That's one big thing we can do that won't limit member creativity but provide form and structure. If we decide to go back to main missions, give them specific release dates. Missions should be monitored and directed conscientiously, with staff driving events in the even that members are fumbling about doing nothing. A plan or plot for the mission should be written in advance, but not adhered to strictly--it should serve as a fallback, not a scaffold.
• Additional material is hard to do, as it depends on having artists and suchlike amongst the member population. In lieu of that, however, maps! We need maps! One of the big problems with the last main mission is we had only a few maps and players kept disagreeing about how far away everything was, what terrain was there, and it was all open to interpretation. We need maps to keep us on track and give us a "board" on which to play on!
• Let's keep up discussion threads like this! Discussion is a great thing and a fantastic way of getting good ideas (although you may have to filter them out of piles of crap) and is a good sign of a healthy site. Props to the staff for creating this thread.

TL;DR: Dude, the section above is my conclusions on the basis of adopting policy modifications. Read it!

[David]

Holy -Blam!- Kart.

That was an epic read and a half. I'm surprised your keyboard isn't smoking after that. Or if it is, Maybe grab a bucket of water.

I agree with your points. It would certainly improve the site.

[BetaWülf]

Those are excellent points Kart, an impressive summary to be quite honest. You always seem to have a clarity and insight we all(myself most certainly included) often lack or cannot see.

As mentioned above, I do have an idea for a plot and setting; one that could be very easily directed, but also leave a lot of freedom for members to wander. The mapping would be fairly easy, it would be about two square miles, but twisting and turning, and multi-leveled basically.

If you guys wanted, I could post a basic concept here and we can work on something from there and get other's ideas too? Would be constructive for getting the ball rolling on the one point we've all seemed to agree on; the return of the Main Mission.

[Frazer]

To be honest I do miss having the main mission, it always was, for most of the time, pretty epic and I had a lot of fun RPing with everyone on the site rather than a few people in a side mission.

But I actually like the system we have as at the moment with us being able to create our own missions and RP them, that in itself is really fun. Heck I just started a side mission with Fac, Llau and BetaW. Its going to be amazing.

I think we do need a staff controlled big or main mission to help give folks a story to post in and get involved in but also keep the side missions idea of being able to create our own in our expanded universe. That way new members can get involved on a default type main mission to practice RP skills and learn about our Halo Cannon and it can also help push our timeline forward as well. Thats the vibe I am sort of getting briefly off everyone.

[Remnant]

I'm fully supporting the return of the main mission so long as the user-created side-missions and such stay. I like the background they give characters, and the extra lore they fill. It's a really good read, watching characters develop and such.

Oh, and I had one small concept for the return of the main mission, if it will come back.

I was skimming over the RP boards, Covenant Empire, Neutral Systems, Outer UNSC Colonies, Inner UNSC Colonies, etc. and in the "Outer UNSC Colonies" section under "Covenant Controlled Territories" it describes that the 23 Librae system is under control of the Covenant Empire for unknown reasons, but it is thought that they are trying to rebuild the facility the Midsummer Night destroyed, to raise an army of Grunts.

Well, clearly, if the Covenant's raising an army, whether if it's true or not, concerns are going to be raised. ONI might send a recon team to investigate. If the rumours are true, the UNSC can send in a strike force to quickly destroy this 'army' while it's vulnerable, which can in turn cripple the Covenant Army, if only slightly.

In short, it'll buy time the UNSC needs, because they won't have another army of Grunts breathing down their necks.



That's just my thoughts. I loved main missions. I love side missions. And I love scheming up plots. And I support both.

[Frazer]

I am for any ideas of making a main mission. Just needs to be epic enough on a grand scale and it also helps advance our sites RP storyline in general.