Threat scaling: Why the BR55 is your friend.

[TinCanHitman]

Hello, and thank you for reading. This is a threat scale to help alleviate any confusion on the average ability of most playable ground units in combat. This is by no means a 1:1 perfect representation of how every single combat engagement will go, but it is just a general idea so that players understand how they should approach an engagement.

I will give a simple mathematical list, explaining who would win on average, then I will go into more detail below.

Human marine Vs Covenant Grunt: Human victory. Equal ability, but on average the marine will win from better training and grunts fleeing.

Marine Fire team Vs Grunt File: Equal ability, tip in favor of marines. While in large groups grunts have a better chance of survival and are more likely to fight. That being said, most grunts are conscripts and thus are less likely to win the battle.

Marine Vs Elite: Covenant win. A single elite Vs a Single marine an elite will win most of the time. They are stronger, faster, have shielding and are born and raised to be combatants. There are some outliers to this.

Marine fire team Vs Elite/grunt file: Equal ability. While marines have a decent chance if they focus their fire, however, with an elite leading them, and the elite's own personal ability, grunts are more capable.

Marine fire team Vs Elite/ Jackal team: Equal ability, tip for covenant. Jackals are more trained and better equipped for human style combat.

Marine fire team Vs Jackal file: Equal ability. Jackals and Humans are similar enough in skill and biology that with equal teams they are evenly matched.

Marine Vs Jackal: Equal ability, slight tip for jackal. Jackals have talons and are generally faster, however, humans are almost as capable and can still win the battle.

Marine fire team Vs Elite file: Covenant victory. Elites are dominant forces and with shields and plasma rifles can easily claim the field.

Marine Vs Brute: Covenant victory. Brutes are massive death machines, even with little training and simple weapons brutes have the ability to tear humans apart with their bare hands.

Marine Vs Hunter: Covenant victory. Hunters are walking tanks, obviously they will be extremely hard to take on.

Marine Fire team Vs Hunter pair: Covenant victory. Similar as on top, however, a human victory is not unreachable. It is simply un-likely.

Marine Vs Drone: Equal ability, slight tip for marine. A marine has better ranged weaponry and more training than a drone, given a level playing field the marine is more likely to win.

These are simple statistics based off of covenant and human ability. They are not set in stone, nor are they the outcome of most battles. A major factor in all combat is scenario. A covenant force that has been fighting a long time and is weakened may fall to a smaller human force, or a force of marines may ambush a group of covenant and thus get the edge of surprise.

A huge advantage humans have over the covenant is their fire arms. In modern combat engagements are fought over greater distances. The MA5B, and it's DMR cousin, can engage effectively at 200 yards, which is 600 feet, the BR55 can engage at 950 meters, that's 3116 feet. The covenant plasma rifle/pistol have no where near that capability, and the needler is even worse which are the three most standard covenant weapons used by elites, jackals, drones, and grunts. So with that in mind, take the above scenarios, and separate the groups by about four-hundred feet. The humans suddenly have a huge advantage, and their chances of survival and victory are almost doubled. Un-shielded grunts are easily picked off, and with only the elite to focus on his shields are easily dealt with.

This is not to say that marines cannot fight in close quarters, with weapons like the M90 close assault weapon, the M45 Tactical shotgun, the M7 Sub-machinegun, and the ever infamous flamethrower humans stand a chance at close quarters engagement. These weapons, combined with proper tactics, make humans lethal to covenant forces, as well as the fact that it is rare for humans to simply travel in a single fire team.

Humans main advantage is their tactics and weapons. Where the covenant are fanatical, honor bound, close quarters masters, humans should be engaging them at much further distances. Close quarters is where marines fight and lose, it doesn't matter how strong a brute is, if he can't even get close enough to touch you. Humans begin to win battles when their tools are used effectively, their weapons have greater range, and their grenades are sufficiently more lethal than plasma grenades, in theory.

In conclusion, the covenant are dominant close quarter warriors and are well suited for urban, or CQB/C scenarios, and humans are more effective mid to long range.

This is simply an informational that I built to help explain the threat level of covenant to humans, and how at varying distances the ability of either side is changed. I hope it helps both covenant and human players understand the ranges that their own character would want to be engaged at, as well as their own personal threat level.

[Llau]

I'm Llau, and I approve of this message.

[Guardian Cat of Yappa's]

Marines for life!

[Samuel Murray]

Protip: Avoid anything that isn't a grunt

[MrKill]

Pro..ertip: Use BR55

[Doc the Mother of Dragons]

TL:Dr:

BR's 4 life

[Dufflepud]

No T'voans? xP

Edit: Also, it's not as if the covenant don't have equally long ranged weapons, such as the carbine and needle rifle. In the hands of a kig-yar of any subspecies, wouldn't you say that Humans are going to have a tough time keeping up? Even a well trained ODST marksman doesn't generally have the advantage of a kig-yar's eyes and reflexes. Of course, excluding that, I agree with you, as it seems to be the general trend that Elites and brutes use their shielding/armor as an excuse to not worry about long ranged combat and just rush into where they're comfortable, often resulting in their deaths lol.

[Frazer]

I like, I like.

[TinCanHitman]

Feb 9, 2015 9:20:06 GMT -6 Dufflepud said:

No T'voans? xP

Edit: Also, it's not as if the covenant don't have equally long ranged weapons, such as the carbine and needle rifle. In the hands of a kig-yar of any subspecies, wouldn't you say that Humans are going to have a tough time keeping up? Even a well trained ODST marksman doesn't generally have the advantage of a kig-yar's eyes and reflexes. Of course, excluding that, I agree with you, as it seems to be the general trend that Elites and brutes use their shielding/armor as an excuse to not worry about long ranged combat and just rush into where they're comfortable, often resulting in their deaths lol.

While it is true that the covenant have long range weaponry, we must remember the average covenant soldier carries a plasma rifle, plasma pistol, or a needler. This includes Kig-Yar, as they are typically seen using Shields and pistols, skirmishers are the general exception. This informational is just a general infantry write up, i didn't include things like armor, ODST, Snipers, Commandos, or any of the like, just typical ground units, and their standardized loadouts. 

[David]

I honestly find myself disagreeing with some of your findings. It almost makes it sound like marines are just bodies in armor that have guns but don't know if they should stick the barrel forwards or behind. Most Marines would know enough to do whats needed. Plus, it's been proven time and time again of our tactics. We may not have their physical, technological prowess, But we do have the capability to out think and out strategise our opponents when needed. The main reason they win most of the time is overwhelming technology and sheer numbers.

But I liked the read. It was well thought out and well presented. 10/10 would read again.

[TinCanHitman]

Feb 10, 2015 16:06:46 GMT -6 David said:

I honestly find myself disagreeing with some of your findings. It almost makes it sound like marines are just bodies in armor that have guns but don't know if they should stick the barrel forwards or behind. Most Marines would know enough to do whats needed. Plus, it's been proven time and time again of our tactics. We may not have their physical, technological prowess, But we do have the capability to out think and out strategise our opponents when needed. The main reason they win most of the time is overwhelming technology and sheer numbers.

But I liked the read. It was well thought out and well presented. 10/10 would read again.

I don't think you understood what I said and did, I'm not saying that Marines are dumb, i'm saying the opposite, and as a matter of fact listed how marines have a humongous advantage over the covenant. I even make a point of saying that human strategy is what saves them. What I was mainly addressing here was how people RP humans and how, because of the games, they seem to want to engage at close range, which isn't where humans are at their strongest.

[MrKill]

In the novels humans aren't as strong. Ranged combat is definitely their strong suit.

I don't see anywhere indicating Marines are stupid, but maybe I'm not interpreting the way Dave is.

[David]

First off. I would like to say I never said Dumb anywhere in my response. Second, This is just my interpretation of what was said, and all I said was I just don't agree with some of the facts that were stated, Regardless if they were true or not.

*shrugs* Im going to bow out now. Enjoy everyone!

[Dufflepud]

I've always rejected the whole "superior/inferior strategy" thing as just kinda silly. You'd think that Bungie could have come up with a better explanation for why Humanity hasn't been wiped out than, "The massive alien empire with vastly superior technology and several dedicated warrior cultures leading their armies happen to just make really shitty decisions all the time, and also their soldiers get storm trooper aim whenever a SPARTAN shows up, which somehow is often enough to have a tangible impact on a massive interstellar war." I personally would have found it more interesting as a universe if the technology was more similar alla 40k.

[Daenerys Targaryen]

Feb 11, 2015 23:12:50 GMT -6 Dufflepud said:

I've always rejected the whole "superior/inferior strategy" thing as just kinda silly. You'd think that Bungie could have come up with a better explanation for why Humanity hasn't been wiped out than, "The massive alien empire with vastly superior technology and several dedicated warrior cultures leading their armies happen to just make really shitty decisions all the time, and also their soldiers get storm trooper aim whenever a SPARTAN shows up, which somehow is often enough to have a tangible impact on a massive interstellar war." I personally would have found it more interesting as a universe if the technology was more similar alla 40k.

I don't mean to turn this into a debate thread, that is not my intention, but there are actually a lot of reasons why the Covenant has not steam-rolled humanity. 

1) The Humans know where Humans are, the Covenant don't. 
    
Almost every time the Covenant have stumbled upon humanity, it has been through the use of the Luminary, which is used to locate forerunner relics on different planets, due to Cole Protocol. Most of the time, these forces expect to stumble upon relics and then stumble upon humans instead. The Humans, however, have most likely been garrisoning these colony's with soldiers, fleets, and other defenses in preparation of a Covenant attack. As the Covenant are unable to attack with their full force, they are often held off by human resilience, who are not only fighting for themselves, but their home planet, family, children, and way of life. 

2) Relics

When there are relics on the planet, the Covenant can't risk using the full force of their superiority against a target without risking the damage of holy sites. No one wants to be branded a heretic, and cherry picking your targets strategically limits your abilities. 

3) Covenant Honor/Arrogance and Cannon-fodder tactics

Why use sound tactics when you can flood enemy lines with ground troops like grunts? The massive amount of soldiers at a commanders disposal against a lesser human force may give them a level of arrogance. Remember, they are fighting what they believe to be vermin, bugs, rats, the pimple on the ass of the universe. You don't need to formulate a complex battle strategy to take out a mouse when you have the tools necessary to kill it. As well as this, Sangheili are very honor bound, which can cause multiple problems to arise. 

4) Spartans

Spartans were trained from birth to fight against vietcong meets taliban guerrilla freedom fighters. They were given augmentations,very expensive armor, and are basically the apex of what humanity can achieve through augmentation, at the time. Spartans are able to use all of these to their advantage when they wee re-purposed to assault the Covenant.


5) After all that, The Covenant Still Win

Yeah sure, sometimes humans can beat the Covenant, but when we look at Canon, the Covenant are the historical victors up until the Great Schism. Spartan 117 is one of the last remaining Spartan II's by the end of the war, Spartan III's are equally as non-existant. This is because that even after all their augmentations and training, they still only ever made a slight dent in the massive monster that was the Covenant. The only reason why the Covenant did not win entirely was due to a lot of reasons, some listed above. But I assure you, if they had been given the location of every human world, humanity would have lost the war before it even started. 

If you haven't watched the Halo 2 terminals yet, it even talks about how the Arbiter himself was responsible for the death of billions, if not trillions of humans over the course of his campaign, and how his strategies were superior to every human force he encountered. So really, there isn't much of a "Covies herp derp around and humans win" thing going on. xD 

[MrKill]

I don't get how he can kill trillions when humanity was only 39 billion strong at the start of the war. >_>

[MrKill]

Feb 11, 2015 23:50:55 GMT -6 Daenerys Targaryen said:

Feb 11, 2015 23:12:50 GMT -6 Dufflepud said:

I've always rejected the whole "superior/inferior strategy" thing as just kinda silly. You'd think that Bungie could have come up with a better explanation for why Humanity hasn't been wiped out than, "The massive alien empire with vastly superior technology and several dedicated warrior cultures leading their armies happen to just make really shitty decisions all the time, and also their soldiers get storm trooper aim whenever a SPARTAN shows up, which somehow is often enough to have a tangible impact on a massive interstellar war." I personally would have found it more interesting as a universe if the technology was more similar alla 40k.

I don't mean to turn this into a debate thread, that is not my intention, but there are actually a lot of reasons why the Covenant has not steam-rolled humanity. 

1) The Humans know where Humans are, the Covenant don't. 
    
Almost every time the Covenant have stumbled upon humanity, it has been through the use of the Luminary, which is used to locate forerunner relics on different planets, due to Cole Protocol. Most of the time, these forces expect to stumble upon relics and then stumble upon humans instead. The Humans, however, have most likely been garrisoning these colony's with soldiers, fleets, and other defenses in preparation of a Covenant attack. As the Covenant are unable to attack with their full force, they are often held off by human resilience, who are not only fighting for themselves, but their home planet, family, children, and way of life. 

2) Relics

When there are relics on the planet, the Covenant can't risk using the full force of their superiority against a target without risking the damage of holy sites. No one wants to be branded a heretic, and cherry picking your targets strategically limits your abilities. 

3) Covenant Honor/Arrogance and Cannon-fodder tactics

Why use sound tactics when you can flood enemy lines with ground troops like grunts? The massive amount of soldiers at a commanders disposal against a lesser human force may give them a level of arrogance. Remember, they are fighting what they believe to be vermin, bugs, rats, the pimple on the ass of the universe. You don't need to formulate a complex battle strategy to take out a mouse when you have the tools necessary to kill it. As well as this, Sangheili are very honor bound, which can cause multiple problems to arise. 

4) Spartans

Spartans were trained from birth to fight against vietcong meets taliban guerrilla freedom fighters. They were given augmentations,very expensive armor, and are basically the apex of what humanity can achieve through augmentation, at the time. Spartans are able to use all of these to their advantage when they wee re-purposed to assault the Covenant.


5) After all that, The Covenant Still Win

Yeah sure, sometimes humans can beat the Covenant, but when we look at Canon, the Covenant are the historical victors up until the Great Schism. Spartan 117 is one of the last remaining Spartan II's by the end of the war, Spartan III's are equally as non-existant. This is because that even after all their augmentations and training, they still only ever made a slight dent in the massive monster that was the Covenant. The only reason why the Covenant did not win entirely was due to a lot of reasons, some listed above. But I assure you, if they had been given the location of every human world, humanity would have lost the war before it even started. 

If you haven't watched the Halo 2 terminals yet, it even talks about how the Arbiter himself was responsible for the death of billions, if not trillions of humans over the course of his campaign, and how his strategies were superior to every human force he encountered. So really, there isn't much of a "Covies herp derp around and humans win" thing going on. xD 

I just want to point out something out to add to what Beta12 said.

In the Halo stories - through games, novels, animations, comics and whatever else used to tell the Halo story - it really only follows the SPARTANs and the UNSC Navy, particularly specific characters, in which we all know are likely to be the perspective of John-117 or Captain Keyes, for example.

There are very few stories, novels or otherwise told in other media in the Halo universe that focus on what made the UNSC the UNSC, the non-augmented human forces that often fought in battles - obviously - more than SPARTANs. It wasn't just 33 SPARTANs that made humanity a thorn for the Covenant to deal with, it was the Army, the Marines, the Airforce and sometimes even the Rebellious humans as well.

If the Halo universe focused more on the non-super soldier human aspect I have a feeling the Halo universe would have much more relevant information for us to use. Human forces can achieve tactical brilliance without the help of super soldiers, like they did on Installation 04 when the story actually focused on what humans were capable of by acquiring supplies, taking a vital position on a plateau, and being the ones that located vital information for John-117 to be effective on Installation 04 like he was.

[Dufflepud]

Mmm, that makes sense. No worries, as long as the staff are still fine with it, I view this as a discussion rather than a debate xD.