COMMUNITY VOTE: Player Vs. Player

[MrKill]

Currently, our PvP system is:

PvP
There are two kinds of canon PvP, pre determined or open ended/judged. The rules for each are as follows.

Pre Determined PvP (Casual)
-Occurs in the main thread
-Pre determined PvP requires no judge, and could include neither character dying (i.e. then just shooting at each other briefly), one character or both characters dying according to the choice of the owners of each character.
-Occurs when both players agree

Judged PvP (Competitive)
-Occurs in Canon PvP board
-Challenged player must consent before the match starts
-Open ended PvP must have a staff member to judge it
-Each player will post once (action and response), and then the staff member will post determining the outcome of attempted actions by both players
-This will continue in a three post cycle (P1, then P2, then staff judge)
-Each post consists of an action against the other player and a reaction to the other player's most recent action
-If, after agreeing to this open ended fight, BOTH players agree to end it prematurely they can. If one gets scared but the other doesn't agree, tough. Do not guilt-trip the other player, or feel vindictive towards the other player if the match goes poorly for you.
-Players can contest a staff member decision three times each, causing the posts to be reviewed and two other staff members to be brought in to review the posts in question. then they will, as a group, make a final decision on that series of actions.
-The final action is determined by three staff members automatically
-PvP will be taken to be a different thread, and the outcome will be posted in a mission summary with a link to the fight posted in the main thread

In the past there has been some complaints that this hinders peoples ability to have fun against other characters during the main mission. The PvP system was used in M5 and M6, and while there was plenty of PvP, there were a lot of opportunities where PvP was completely avoided as a result.

Since this directly effects how much enjoyment you get at slaughtering each other, I'd like the community to vote on a course of action. Should we change the PvP into a more lenient system, back to the way it was before this PvP system was implemented?

Do we take from this system and create another? Or do we continue to use this system.

Please vote below.

The voting poll will be closed on 2014-11-15, so make sure you vote in time!

[MrKill]

Pool is unlocked and the so is the thread! Feel free to discuss and vote, guys.

[Guardian Cat of Yappa's]

Hmmm well I'd like to provide input on what it's like to have full combat posts with other players in main canon. On another site I Rp'd on Player PvP was a huge part of the RP, but the rules stated that player killing was the choice of the person who would be in position to kill the other, so you saw alot of times new players dying very quickly and having to make new ones because older players would target and kill them because it would make for a "Badass and awesome kill" which is what drove me from that site. Honestly though, having to take the PvP to a separate thread seems more like a hassle which is why most players prefer the controlled pre determined pvp for canon rps. So if we could come up with a system that combines integrated pvp without people targeting and killing off new players cause they'd be the easier ones to kill, I think that would be great, if not, then i think the current system is alright for now.

[BetaWülf]

I'm confused as to what the old system was like, I don't see any description of it here.

[Remnant]

I agree with Tartar Sauce. AKA Beta.

[Llau]

I believe the old system was players taking turns attacking and defending and vise-versa until one of the players decide to end it, and the staff didn't judge it.

[MrKill]

The old system was where a player would engage another player in an simultaneous attack and defend turn based scenario, like Llau said. For example, one of our most famous Player Vs. Player events would have to be SuperCommando's battle during a mission that was accidentally deleted. His SPARTAN, Silas, battled HollowSaber's at the time Arbiter.

The PvP was attacking and defending at the same time for a good two pages, posts within minutes of each other. Yes, they're usually only a paragraph long, but in a turn based PvP that's about as much as you get in when all you're trying to do is counter someones attack and then attacking yourself.

[Elando]

From what I remember, the old system worked well and the posts in thread were also augmented by a conversation between players via PM or whatever as to how the battle would pan out.

Essentially, they'd agree who would win beforehand and it was mainly just up to them as to how the battle went. Personally, this is a much better system than allowing someone to judge the outcome. I'm not sure how PvP is done now but having it done in thread and hashed out between both members as to the outcome just seems better, especially if they don't actually want their character to die in the end.

Sure it means PvP isn't a 'challenge' or anything but it means you can have awesome fights like the one between StrikerCommando and many others that have taken place without the need for someone sacrificing a character they've worked hard on.

EDIT:

Also, the PvP was only initiated if both players agreed beforehand, otherwise they'd just avoid each other for some reason, either explained or not.

In the end, it was the player's choice if they wanted to go through with it and most definitely their choice if their character died in the end or not.

[Dufflepud]

As the person who created the aforementioned system (with the help of my staff at the time, I believe), I've honestly never seen it implemented other than maybe once or twice. I'd say either create a new system, or revert to the old one (but still use separate threads). To aid in the discussion, I'll tell you guys what we were hoping to achieve when we came up with it;

Basically, at the time (I forget when, exactly), we recognized two issues with the completely lax system. Firstly, that it ate up a significant amount of space in the main RP thread. This is problematic because it makes it significantly more difficult to stay caught up with all of the different interactions, or "character threads" that are thrown together in any one RP thread, as one has to read through a large volume of additional unrelated posts to glean the information relevant to one's character. This can have a surprising impact on activity, as when posting is more difficult than simply skimming the thread and writing, people will sometimes just not post xD. The second problem is that, excluding situations where people agreed beforehand on an outcome, fights would become either ridiculous or cause interpersonal conflict due to the inevitable arguments and misunderstandings that occur when the lives of the characters are on the line.

That said, I don't think my solution worked, and although I can't say I have any other ideas to suggest, I'm sure that people, if they were so inclined and were willing to put in the necessary time and effort, could come up with a more elegant and functional system.

If that isn't a priority for anyone in the community, then we might as well go back to the original system and not worry about it. If it is and people intend to work on it, I'll happily offer what time and mental energy I can spare to helping out.

[SuperCommando]

Nov 11, 2014 20:34:00 GMT -6 MrKill said:

one of our most famous Player Vs. Player events would have to be SuperCommando's battle during a mission that was accidentally deleted. His SPARTAN, Silas, battled HollowSaber's at the time Arbiter.

Ah, good times...

I actually have that entire mission copy-pasted into a word document. Now that I think about it, I'm totally going to put that fight in my War Stories thread.

[BetaWülf]

Honestly, I like both systems now that I've heard them both, as I have used both in previous RP experiences(Off and on Yappa's.) Could we integrate them so we have the best of both worlds, or is that just crazy talk on my part?

[Faclan]

We could always use the old system for this mission and see how it goes - and then vote after the mission so the newer members (or those of us that weren't around back then) to see how it works.

That's my thought at least (didn't vote yet.)

[Elando]

I like Faclan's idea.

Use the old system for this mission, since the new system seems to have been around for a while, and then yeah, vote on it after.

While I agree with Dufflepud that it does end in threads getting a bit messy it also means that everyone knows what's going on because, unfortunately, checking an entirely different thread is effort and people hate effort.

Alternatively, I've also seen, and done it myself, where people colab write the PvP into a single post where they write with the other person and use the [ hr ] breaks to differentiate between PoV.

It requires a bit more work but having just one of the people post it does wonders for thread tidiness.

[Llau]

Fac's idea is good. I like it.

As for having a different thread for the PvP...I agree on not having another one just for that. Like Elando said with the writing colab, that could work. That way, no one else will get long is how long it takes for the PVP to finish, and it's all in one post (or two, if it ends up going over the character limit lol)

[Vertickly]

I was thinking the same as elando. Havr the battlr in one single made by both members in pms or something

[BetaWülf]

Yeah, me thinks Fac has the right idea, and Elando is definitely right about the effort dilemma.

[MrKill]

Okay, voting is now closed!

Judging from the community feedback, we will be adopting a new system for people to enjoy, based on what we previously had in the past. The new system will be updated in a new thread in the near future. Thank you for your feedback!